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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
36
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Posted - 2012.10.25 20:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is an absolutely horrible mechanic. CCP will not fix it. At some point, Dec Shield Alliance will grow big enough to effectively block every single corporation in Eve from ever joining an alliance and then maybe CCP will fix it.
To clear things up, here is how the relevant mechanics work:
1. You cannot join an alliance if you an aggressor in a war
2. If a corporation leaves an alliance that is at war, it declares war (ie becomes the aggressor) against all the corps/alliances at war with the alliance you are leaving.
3. If a corp who is a defender in a war joins an alliance, that wardec is transferred to the alliance with the alliance as the defender.
4. The defender can set the war mutual, which creates a forever war) at any time and all the above rules still apply
So, the only way to ensure that you cannot be indefinitely blocked from joining an alliances is A)Never declare war and B) Never leave an alliance who is at war.
We actually fell victim to this by a specialized type of militia griefing corp. They join a militia and then start ganking friendly militia. They use the militia standing "feature" of having some high standing chars to offset the standing loss. Other militia corps cannot really engage back because of the standing loss issue. They wait for a militia corp to be sufficiently annoyed to wardec them. Once they are war deced, they join an empty alliance, set the war mutual, then ransom you. At this point the militia corp can never join an alliance. The greifers can either abandon the original corp or drop alliance and keep baiting more militia corps.
It is actually a very intelligent griefing concept taking advantage of CCP's HORRIBLE game design that still applies to rules to mutual wardecs.
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https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
37
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Posted - 2012.10.25 20:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Slasher88 wrote:Wow this is a very bad idea on ccp's part i mean they passed out on all that isk if the war is declared mutual .
On the other hand i am wondering how much time did they spend on this idea since there is no exit strategy other than of course the mutual agreement. But thinking about this some more anyone can create a corp put it into a alliance that is being wardeced and then inherit the was and declare mutual and hunt the wardeccing alliance/ corp until ccp decides on a alternative option or shuts down the server . That would serve very well with the old war deccing like Moar Tears Privateers and co :) . I don't think anyone would want a perma war with those guys esp the 0.0 alliances . I thought the new price for war was to prevent these stupid war decs and make the real ones more fun but since this loophole exists and well it has been deemed a normal game mechanic it will probably become a normal thing in new eden in a few days . Yes u need to fall in for the trap as u need to do the wardec but some ppl never read ....
All i would like to say further is ...
IN B4 IT HAPPENS TO GEWNS AND THE MECHANIC IS CHANGED BY MASS PETITION
OFC : I forgot about the disband thing but that is just simply ******** imagine disbanding a corp like dreddit or smth with 8k players
Well, right now Manifest Destiny is locked in a mutual war with Goonswarm Federation. If somebody could disband Goonswarm Federation right now, then all the Goon corps would drop alliance and automagically declare war against Manifest Destiny, at this point Manifest Destiny could set the war mutual with each of the corps thereby preventing any of those corps from ever joining a new alliance. Pretty cool, huh?
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
40
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Posted - 2012.10.26 00:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tekitha wrote:The solution to this problem is simple tbh and it's a shame ccp lack the brain power to fix it.
When a corp / alliance makes a war mutual, there is no longer an "agressing" party, both sides are effectively agressing. At this point both parties should be afforded the mechanics of a defending party
I actually prefer a checkbox labeled "mutual". Both sides need to check it to make a war mutual. If one side unchecks it, the war returns to normal. But yeah you could also make both sides a defender in a mutual war.
Anyway, it's not hard to fix. The problem was ccp wasn't going to have mutual wars anymore, but just threw it back in without thinking about it when they realized RvB would break.
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
40
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Posted - 2012.10.26 01:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156437
^^^ This is the thread to bind them all. I just read it all and it appears the Dec Shield guys figured this one out a month ago. Its a huge problem. Goonswarm Federation is about to be trapped. COVEN is already trapped. Hopefully the Dec Shield guys can burn the system to the ground and CCP will fix it.
In the meantime, all my fellow FW corps/alliances(except Happy Endings who are already trapped) DO NOT DECLARE WAR ON ANYBODY unless you want to trash your corp or alliance. That especially applies to you Tek, even if they use the magic Torpedo word and really deserve a war dec.
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
40
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Posted - 2012.10.26 02:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tekitha wrote:
from your posts it seems you are saying "if you declare war on ANYBODY, EVER you should expect the consequences" (consequences in this case being the likelyhood you'll have to disband your corp should you ever wish to join an alliance) ... Is this honestly your opinion?
Don't forget, if you are an Alliance that gets trapped, no new corporations can join your alliance ever again either. Also, any corps leaving your alliance will also be trapped and can never join a new alliance. If an Alliance declares war it effectively says that you will have to trash the alliance and all the corps in it and start over as soon as the war is over.
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Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
40
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Posted - 2012.10.26 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
John Caffeine wrote:Dead God I hope whoever the next person to Hargoth an alliance is keeps this mechanic in mind.
Also, if someone wants to kick a corporation from their alliance, could they wardec their own one-man alt corp, kick the corporation, make the war mutual and thus prevent that corporation from ever joining another alliance?
And if so, could they then end the war with the alliance itself, but keep the mutual war with the corporation going forever?
Yes you could, that is very very evil. I like it.
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